Is the media killing the Arts?

[TJ]

Is the media killing the Arts?

Business and Arts South Africa is supporting research into Arts coverage in
the mass media. We want to hear from the Arts community what it thinks...

Hello everyone

TELL US WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ARTS COVERAGE IN THE MASS MEDIA

DEADLINE: June 30th, 2005

Send all correspondence to alan at openresearch.co.za

***************

Business and Arts South Africa is supporting research into Arts coverage in
the mass media. The objective of the research is to try understand better
how the mass media is communicating the Arts to the South African public.

What are the limitations? What is it doing right and what is it doing wrong?
Is it being lazy? Who and what is getting left out?

As part of the research, we're interested in getting responses from people
involved in Arts and Culture - from the Arts community itself. These could
be artists, writers, dancers, actors, publishers, or even 'consumers' of the
arts.

What do you think of the media's coverage of the Arts?

HOW TO PARTICIPATE

If you want to have your say, please send us an e-mail answering two simple
questions:

1. WHAT YOU DO: (e.g. dancer, artist, actor, publisher, poet, writer,
musician, 'consumer' or art lover)

2. WHAT YOU THINK OF THE MASS MEDIA'S COVERAGE OF THE ARTS:

* All feedback will be published anonymously;
* We will use the input in a way that best highlights or compliments the
findings of the research;
* Please feel free to write as little or as much as you want;
* Please be SPECIFIC about the type of media you're talking about
(e.g.radio, TV, newspapers, magazines);
* Please use media names if you need to (e.g. Cape Times, The Star, SAFM,
Kaya, P4, SABC1).

PLEASE PASS THIS ON!

The research is being conducted by the Media Monitoring Project
(www.mediamonitoring.org.za) and Open Research (www.openresearch.co.za).

It will be made publicly available, so that everyone can benefit from its
findings.


Picture: No
Submitted by Alan Finlay (alan at openresearch.co.za)
PR Company: Open Research
Telephone Number: 011 726 4964
Client's name: Open Research and Media Monitoring Project
Website: http://www.openresearch.co.za

[Skokkie]

Post by TJ
Is the media killing the Arts?
Business and Arts South Africa is supporting research into Arts coverage in
the mass media. We want to hear from the Arts community what it thinks...
Hello everyone
TELL US WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ARTS COVERAGE IN THE MASS MEDIA
DEADLINE: June 30th, 2005
Send all correspondence to alan at openresearch.co.za
***************
Business and Arts South Africa is supporting research into Arts coverage in
the mass media. The objective of the research is to try understand better
how the mass media is communicating the Arts to the South African public.
What are the limitations? What is it doing right and what is it doing wrong?
Is it being lazy? Who and what is getting left out?
As part of the research, we're interested in getting responses from people
involved in Arts and Culture - from the Arts community itself. These could
be artists, writers, dancers, actors, publishers, or even 'consumers' of the
arts.
What do you think of the media's coverage of the Arts?
HOW TO PARTICIPATE
If you want to have your say, please send us an e-mail answering two simple
1. WHAT YOU DO: (e.g. dancer, artist, actor, publisher, poet, writer,
musician, 'consumer' or art lover)
* All feedback will be published anonymously;
* We will use the input in a way that best highlights or compliments the
findings of the research;
* Please feel free to write as little or as much as you want;
* Please be SPECIFIC about the type of media you're talking about
(e.g.radio, TV, newspapers, magazines);
* Please use media names if you need to (e.g. Cape Times, The Star, SAFM,
Kaya, P4, SABC1).
PLEASE PASS THIS ON!
The research is being conducted by the Media Monitoring Project
(www.mediamonitoring.org.za) and Open Research (www.openresearch.co.za).
It will be made publicly available, so that everyone can benefit from its
findings.
Picture: No
Submitted by Alan Finlay (alan at openresearch.co.za)
PR Company: Open Research
Telephone Number: 011 726 4964
Client's name: Open Research and Media Monitoring Project
Website: http://www.openresearch.co.za

Video killed the Radio star!

[Steve Hayes]

Post by TJ
Is the media killing the Arts?

Is the Arts dying?

[Schwann - Memetico]

In article
<***@4ax.com>,
you say...

Post by TJ
Is the media killing the Arts?

is the Pope a catholic?

[Ampers Taylor]

Post by Schwann - Memetico

Post by TJ
Is the media killing the Arts?

is the Pope a catholic?

I doubt, very much, whether anyone who rises above Bishop in catholic or
roman catholic religions, actually believe in God, let alone believing
in Jesus Christ.

Now that the information about the origins of Christianity has appeared
on http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ I doubt that, after the 15th March (see
the publicity campaign for that date on their website) many people will
be able to believe in Jesus of Nazareth any more.

[Jenicek]

Post by Ampers Taylor

Post by Schwann - Memetico

Post by TJ
Is the media killing the Arts?

is the Pope a catholic?

I doubt, very much, whether anyone who rises above Bishop in catholic or
roman catholic religions, actually believe in God, let alone believing in
Jesus Christ.
Now that the information about the origins of Christianity has appeared
on http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ I doubt that, after the 15th March (see the
publicity campaign for that date on their website) many people will be
able to believe in Jesus of Nazareth any more.

Obviously you must be one qualified expert on RC religion.
What are you ? Jew or Muslim?
Devil worshiper might be more appropriate...

[Ampers Taylor]

Post by Jenicek

Post by Ampers Taylor

Post by Schwann - Memetico

Post by TJ
Is the media killing the Arts?

is the Pope a catholic?

I doubt, very much, whether anyone who rises above Bishop in catholic or
roman catholic religions, actually believe in God, let alone believing in
Jesus Christ.
Now that the information about the origins of Christianity has appeared
on http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ I doubt that, after the 15th March (see the
publicity campaign for that date on their website) many people will be
able to believe in Jesus of Nazareth any more.

Obviously you must be one qualified expert on RC religion.
What are you ? Jew or Muslim?
Devil worshiper might be more appropriate...

I was, until recently a Christian who believed both in God and Jesus
Christ. I was brought up a protestant in the Dutch Reform Church.
Zeitgeist is not about specific flavours of Christianity, it is about
the myth.

The evidence on the pages which list the research was read pretty damn
thoroughly, I can assure you. And now, although I still believe in God,
I have come to the conclusion that Christianity is based on a story of a
God who was around 3,000BC and that the same history was accredited to
Gods throughout the ages until the last one. Once I came to that
conclusion a lot of things in this world became clearer to me.

I could never be an RC for so many reasons. One, for example, is the
Popes decision not to allow black RC's in Southern Africa to use
Condoms. Although living in the UK, I support several charities who help
AIDS sufferers, one in particular that helps orphans of AIDS victims.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity of explaining further, I am most
grateful for this. You accuse me of being a Jew or Muslim as if there is
something wrong with being either? I have met good and bad in both those
religions, as I have with Christians.

Ampers.

[Peter H.M. Brooks]

Post by Ampers Taylor
And now, although I still believe in God,

I find that odd. Why come to such sensible conclusions about
Christianity, but continue to be a monotheist? Wouldn't it be more
rational to become a pantheist if you can't make it all the way the
atheism?

[Ampers Taylor]

Post by Peter H.M. Brooks

Post by Ampers Taylor
And now, although I still believe in God,

I find that odd. Why come to such sensible conclusions about
Christianity, but continue to be a monotheist? Wouldn't it be more
rational to become a pantheist if you can't make it all the way the
atheism?

I don't really know. I think that I have to believe there is some reason
why we are here. If we were just animal, without an intellect, then I
could believe that we just evolved. But then I couldn't do that without
an intellect could I?

[Peter H.M.Brooks]

Post by Ampers Taylor

Post by Peter H.M. Brooks

Post by Ampers Taylor
And now, although I still believe in God,

I find that odd. Why come to such sensible conclusions about
Christianity, but continue to be a monotheist? Wouldn't it be more
rational to become a pantheist if you can't make it all the way the
atheism?

I don't really know. I think that I have to believe there is some reason
why we are here. If we were just animal, without an intellect, then I
could believe that we just evolved. But then I couldn't do that without
an intellect could I?

You make intelligent points. They demand a proper response.

I agree. If we were the only intelligence, then we would have a
responsibility. Even if we were a partial intelligence with partial
ability, we'd still have that responsibility.

However that remains true whether we have what you call 'animal'
intelligence or not. We are animals, no more, nor less than a microbe.

Why, unlike the microbe, we wish to believe that we have some purpose,
is part of the way that we have evolved to be what we are. It has
nothing to do with whether there are the things that we imagine might be
out there (unicorns, fairies, Father Christmas, Gods, a free lunch and
the like) or not.

We might wish to believe in X, because we have developed to believe in
X, but that does not mean that X exists. If X is a 'free lunch' it is
easier than if X is a fairy, but, if we are rational, we understand t
hat the the two are at the same level of improbability.

[Ampers Taylor]

Post by Peter H.M.Brooks

Post by Ampers Taylor

Post by Peter H.M. Brooks

Post by Ampers Taylor
And now, although I still believe in God,

I find that odd. Why come to such sensible conclusions about
Christianity, but continue to be a monotheist? Wouldn't it be more
rational to become a pantheist if you can't make it all the way the
atheism?

I don't really know. I think that I have to believe there is some
reason why we are here. If we were just animal, without an intellect,
then I could believe that we just evolved. But then I couldn't do that
without an intellect could I?

You make intelligent points. They demand a proper response.
I agree. If we were the only intelligence, then we would have a
responsibility. Even if we were a partial intelligence with partial
ability, we'd still have that responsibility.
However that remains true whether we have what you call 'animal'
intelligence or not. We are animals, no more, nor less than a microbe.
Why, unlike the microbe, we wish to believe that we have some purpose,
is part of the way that we have evolved to be what we are. It has
nothing to do with whether there are the things that we imagine might be
out there (unicorns, fairies, Father Christmas, Gods, a free lunch and
the like) or not.
We might wish to believe in X, because we have developed to believe in
X, but that does not mean that X exists. If X is a 'free lunch' it is
easier than if X is a fairy, but, if we are rational, we understand t
hat the the two are at the same level of improbability.

Yes, but whether it is a God or a fairy... I am intelligent enough to
know there is no such thing as a free lunch... it will take a mountain
to move me from the idea that, if there is no purpose, then our lives
are pointless. But your points are not to be brushed lightly aside.

[Peter H.M.Brooks]

Post by Ampers Taylor
Yes, but whether it is a God or a fairy... I am intelligent enough to
know there is no such thing as a free lunch... it will take a mountain
to move me from the idea that, if there is no purpose, then our lives
are pointless. But your points are not to be brushed lightly aside.

Maybe you just need a small mountain, a molehill might do, given the way
that they're made into mountains so often.

It's simply a matter of definition that if there is no purpose to life
then life is purposeless, that's just tautology. If by 'pointless' you
mean 'purposeless' then, again, by definition, that would follow.

If you mean more than that by 'pointless', as people usually do. You
don't just mean that there is no point to it all, but, rather, becuase
of that, that there is also no reason to live or continue to live. Now
that's where I'd disagree. There is no point to life, there is no
intrinsic 'meaning' to it (though it isn't that clear quite what sense
of 'meaning' is meant when you say that life has none - to go all Slice
Willie about it). That doesn't mean that you can't decide to invest your
own meaning to living, to give your own point to it all.

You might think it cheating to make up your own meaning and point to
life - after all, playing patience where you make up the rules as you go
along is not a very entertaining game, you can't get much pleasure out
of cheating yourself. It turns out, though, that that isn't the case.

Just as it is proven that placebos work, even if you know that they are
placebos - and that expensive placebos work better than cheap ones - so
it is known to be the case that you can be very happy working to your
own meaning. After all, when people go to all the expense, trouble and
mental gymnastics necessary to believe in gods (as Hugh Clough put it in
'The Latest Decalogue'; have one god only, who'd wish the expense of
two), that's exactly what they are doing - and it works.

[Bob Dubery]

Post by Peter H.M.Brooks
. After all, when people go to all the expense, trouble and
mental gymnastics necessary to believe in gods (as Hugh Clough put it in
'The Latest Decalogue'; have one god only, who'd wish the expense of
two), that's exactly what they are doing - and it works.

I don't think there's a lot of mental gymnastics involved. Most people
are born into a society in which the existence of deity is pretty much
taken for granted. They might not spend their every waking moment
thinking about deity and what deity requires from the lowly likes of
us, but that's the majority school of thought (though I think that
majority may slowly be reducing). So it takes more in the way of
examining and thinking and drawing conclusions to go against that. It
is still the case that a person who overtly declares themselves to be
an atheist is swimming against the tide.

[Ampers Taylor]

Post by Peter H.M.Brooks
Just as it is proven that placebos work, even if you know that they are
placebos - and that expensive placebos work better than cheap ones - so
it is known to be the case that you can be very happy working to your
own meaning. After all, when people go to all the expense, trouble and
mental gymnastics necessary to believe in gods (as Hugh Clough put it in
'The Latest Decalogue'; have one god only, who'd wish the expense of
two), that's exactly what they are doing - and it works.

I take your point here... I don't really give it too much thought, but
every now and again to wonder a little.

Thanks for your exchanges, it has certainly given me another perspective.

[Bob Dubery]

Post by Ampers Taylor
I could never be an RC for so many reasons. One, for example, is the
Popes decision not to allow black RC's in Southern Africa to use
Condoms.

That's an interesting statement. Has the Pope allowed Southern African
RCs of other ethnicities to use condoms? Or do you think that he
should make a concession and allow black members of his flock to
condomise?

[Ampers Taylor]

Post by Bob Dubery

Post by Ampers Taylor
I could never be an RC for so many reasons. One, for example, is the
Popes decision not to allow black RC's in Southern Africa to use
Condoms.

That's an interesting statement. Has the Pope allowed Southern African
RCs of other ethnicities to use condoms? Or do you think that he
should make a concession and allow black members of his flock to
condomise?

I think it might be a good gesture. I believe your new president of the
main political party thinks that washing after sex is enough to hold
aids at bay? When people in such a high position in a country come out
with misleading facts such as those, the church should step in ad help
their flock.

[Bob Dubery]

Post by Ampers Taylor
I think it might be a good gesture. I believe your new president of the
main political party thinks that washing after sex is enough to hold
aids at bay? When people in such a high position in a country come out
with misleading facts such as those, the church should step in ad help
their flock.

That's not really answering my question. You said "for example, is the
Popes decision not to allow black RC's in Southern Africa to use
Condoms." which raises questions about
a) did the pope allow RC's other than black RC's to use condoms?(and
we know the answer to that)
b) do you think that black SAn's should have a seperate papal
dispensation?

[Ampers Taylor]

Post by Bob Dubery

Post by Ampers Taylor
I think it might be a good gesture. I believe your new president of the
main political party thinks that washing after sex is enough to hold
aids at bay? When people in such a high position in a country come out
with misleading facts such as those, the church should step in ad help
their flock.

That's not really answering my question. You said "for example, is the
Popes decision not to allow black RC's in Southern Africa to use
Condoms." which raises questions about
a) did the pope allow RC's other than black RC's to use condoms?(and
we know the answer to that)
b) do you think that black SAn's should have a seperate papal
dispensation?

The fact that you are not taking my original answer as an answer to your
question perhaps indicates that you are reading more into my message
than I perhaps am writing?

I think also we are talking Southern Africans here as in South of the
Sahara rather than South Africans alone. At least I am. We all have an
obligation to help the situation, by all, I mean able blacks and able
whites and any other able ethic group you may consider. My favourite
saying has always been that "those that can have a responsibility to
those that can't". In this situation, those of us who understand the
causes of Aids have an obligation to help those who don't understand.
This is just the belief of a non-Christian on this matter.

The Pope, as do you and I, belong to one of these two groups. If he has
no idea on the problems and causes of Aids, then you are right, he
should do nothing. If he knows that using a physical contraceptive will
stop even a small percentage of his flock killing themselves, their
spouses and perhaps even their children, then he should do all in his
power to help them.

I would hazard a guess if Eugène Ney Terre'Blanche could advise him, he
would suggest the Pope does not give any dispensation at all, in any way.

My mind is not closed if you can put together a convincing argument as
to why the Pope should not help these poor families, I will listen
carefully to what you have to say.

[Bob Dubery]

Post by Ampers Taylor
The fact that you are not taking my original answer as an answer to your
question perhaps indicates that you are reading more into my message
than I perhaps am writing?

That's fair enough as far as it goes, but...

Post by Ampers Taylor
by all, I mean able blacks and able
whites and any other able ethic group you may consider.

Except you originally stipulated black. It's a bit much to expect that
when you say "black" the reader is to understand that you mean "white"
as well.

[Ampers Taylor]

Post by Bob Dubery

Post by Ampers Taylor
The fact that you are not taking my original answer as an answer to your
question perhaps indicates that you are reading more into my message
than I perhaps am writing?

That's fair enough as far as it goes, but...

Post by Ampers Taylor
by all, I mean able blacks and able
whites and any other able ethic group you may consider.

Except you originally stipulated black. It's a bit much to expect that
when you say "black" the reader is to understand that you mean "white"
as well.

I added that to cheer you up. I mentioned blacks only because I have
never heard a white leader of a political party tell the world that you
can prevent aids by washing yourself after sex. But you are right. There
may well be one somewhere so I should add "white" to cover myself.

I thank you for looking after my reputation.

[Jenicek]

Post by Ampers Taylor

Post by Jenicek

Post by Ampers Taylor

Post by Schwann - Memetico

Post by TJ
Is the media killing the Arts?

is the Pope a catholic?

I doubt, very much, whether anyone who rises above Bishop in catholic or
roman catholic religions, actually believe in God, let alone believing
in Jesus Christ.
Now that the information about the origins of Christianity has appeared
on http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ I doubt that, after the 15th March (see
the publicity campaign for that date on their website) many people will
be able to believe in Jesus of Nazareth any more.

Obviously you must be one qualified expert on RC religion.
What are you ? Jew or Muslim?
Devil worshiper might be more appropriate...

I was, until recently a Christian who believed both in God and Jesus
Christ. I was brought up a protestant in the Dutch Reform Church.
Zeitgeist is not about specific flavours of Christianity, it is about the
myth.
The evidence on the pages which list the research was read pretty damn
thoroughly, I can assure you. And now, although I still believe in God, I
have come to the conclusion that Christianity is based on a story of a God
who was around 3,000BC and that the same history was accredited to Gods
throughout the ages until the last one. Once I came to that conclusion a
lot of things in this world became clearer to me.
I could never be an RC for so many reasons. One, for example, is the Popes
decision not to allow black RC's in Southern Africa to use Condoms.
Although living in the UK, I support several charities who help AIDS
sufferers, one in particular that helps orphans of AIDS victims.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity of explaining further, I am most
grateful for this. You accuse me of being a Jew or Muslim as if there is
something wrong with being either? I have met good and bad in both those
religions, as I have with Christians.
Ampers.

It is interesting to read and to find how some people (like you) find,
create and believe in their own
theories....

[Schwann - Memetico]

i thought this was about the arts, not
religion....it seems people are trying harder
and harder to find something to believe in,
but because belief itself requires certain
inner perspectives, this is not always
possible for a given person....


the religion thing, altho demystified in many
areas, remains a domain of 'belief', or
'hope', for many who have no other means of
expressing themselves to a higher force....


I believe that certain forms of art are close
to 'God'...

now go draw/paint/sing/dance/etc something!

best,

Schwann Cybershaman


In article <TdudnTxfrJggWUbanZ2dnUVZ8t-

Post by Ampers Taylor

Post by Schwann - Memetico

Post by TJ
Is the media killing the Arts?

is the Pope a catholic?

I doubt, very much, whether anyone who rises above Bishop in catholic or
roman catholic religions, actually believe in God, let alone believing
in Jesus Christ.
Now that the information about the origins of Christianity has appeared
on http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ I doubt that, after the 15th March (see
the publicity campaign for that date on their website) many people will
be able to believe in Jesus of Nazareth any more.

[Rev. 11D Meow!]

Church of the SubGenius IS *ART*!!!

Post by Schwann - Memetico
i thought this was about the arts, not
religion....it seems people are trying harder
and harder to find something to believe in,
but because belief itself requires certain
inner perspectives, this is not always
possible for a given person....
the religion thing, altho demystified in many
areas, remains a domain of 'belief', or
'hope', for many who have no other means of
expressing themselves to a higher force....
I believe that certain forms of art are close
to 'God'...
now go draw/paint/sing/dance/etc something!
best,
Schwann Cybershaman
In article <TdudnTxfrJggWUbanZ2dnUVZ8t-

Post by Ampers Taylor

Post by Schwann - Memetico

Post by TJ
Is the media killing the Arts?

is the Pope a catholic?

I doubt, very much, whether anyone who rises above Bishop in catholic or
roman catholic religions, actually believe in God, let alone believing
in Jesus Christ.
Now that the information about the origins of Christianity has appeared
on http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ I doubt that, after the 15th March (see
the publicity campaign for that date on their website) many people will
be able to believe in Jesus of Nazareth any more.

[Schwann - Memetico]

In article <Q-

Post by Rev. 11D Meow!
Church of the SubGenius IS *ART*!!!

of course, why else would i post here? :)